Rob “Hobby K” Kahn

Youngstown Ohio was cracky.

What's up and welcome back to the Grandcast.

We have the Godfather of Jiu-Jitsu and Tempa.

I like to call him Mr. Rob Khan in the house.

Rob, thanks for joining us today.

My pleasure, sir. Thank you for having me.

We got Rob on the road today while he's in the car.

We can take his time anyway, we can get it.

Let me start off, Rob, you know, and introduce you to some of the folks that are following the Grandcast.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe you were one of Hoistgraces' first few black belts that he promoted in the state.

Yeah, he, you know, the first voice he's never promoted, anybody to black belts.

He started teaching in the mid-80s in California.

And he had not promoted anybody to black belts until he gave me and four others are black belts in 2004.

Wow.

So one of the proudest achievements, you know, I mean, the boys who had thousands of students over the olden days,

of course, that 20-something years.

And, you know, not until me and four of the guys that are black belts in 2004,

did he ever actually bestow a black belt on somebody's own?

Unbelievable.

It's pretty be it, you know, I'm still, I'm still super, super, super proud about that, you know.

That's sick. Where was that at, Rob?

Well, the actual promotion ceremony was in North Carolina because Hoistgraces does like this.

You know, he's like a rock star. He goes on with the world doing seminars.

In fact, I think he's the only guy who can do the business model that he runs.

He doesn't have a school, he doesn't want a school.

Six months after that, I've had six months of the year he takes off into the family.

And he makes it incredibly comfortable living doing it.

So, more power to him.

But I train with Hoistgraces in towards California.

And then, you know, I'm a New Yorker born and raised.

So, I moved out to New York. I moved out to California to train with the graces.

Because when I started in the 90s, if you wanted to do Jiu-Jitsu, you had two choices.

Packet bags, you moved to Brazil, a packet bag, and moved to towards California.

Why?

And I chose California.

And after a couple of years, Hands of Gratitude opened up in Manhattan.

So, I went back to New York.

I still maintained my, my, obviously, my friendship and my, my relationship with Hoist as my instructor.

But Hoist Hands are super cool.

And they, they were cool with me, you know, training a lot of hands.

Even though I was still being promoted and mentored by Hoist, you know, 3000 miles away.

So, I kind of had the best of both worlds.

I get to train.

I get to train more common, I think.

That's probably more common nowadays than it was back then.

I know, you know, old school, you know, Jiu-Jitsu, you know, guys were not real open to, you know, having students training at multiple places, at least from my experience.

That is an dramatic understanding.

They, they do not like it at all.

I mean, at all, back then in the 90s.

I mean, that was verbose.

You could not.

I mean, thankfully Hoist and Hanzo, you know, have a really good relationship.

And I checked, you know, obviously I checked with Hoist before I did it.

And Hoist was like, yeah, it's my cousin.

Of course, go train with him, you know.

And Hanzo is about as nice and accommodating a guy as you're ever going to meet.

So, Hanzo was cool about it as well.

And then, through that connection, I wound up doing a lot of day-to-day training with Rodrigo Blacene,

who a lot, you know, not as many people know about Rodrigo.

But that dude is a monster, straight up monster.

And he would have been, I think, he would have had a UFC title to his name.

If he didn't sustain a bunch of pretty bad back injuries along the way.

And was Hanzo, were you training with him in New York?

Yeah, yeah.

And what was pretty cool was I trained with Rodrigo in New York,

because when Hanzo started getting real busy, you know, I did some, you know,

I was doing a prayer in between Hanzo.

You know, and they, not regularly because they were expensive.

But, you know, I'd sprint and save, and whenever I could, I'd take a five-o with Hanzo.

And then, at some point, you know, when Hanzo really started blowing up,

and the school started blowing up, he kind of said, like, look, man, I'm, you know,

I'm not really doing a prayer with that much anymore.

I'm going to turn you on, Mike Cousin, and Hanzo.

And Hanzo was a brown belt back then.

And this is how freaking cool Hanzo was.

So, I mean, think about this nowadays.

Like, I would get a prize with Hanzo.

It was $75.

Right?

And the prize that we go, you know, for an hour, and I would learn a ton of stuff,

just an excellent instructor, and he would show you anything you wanted to know.

Which, you know, back in the day, the presrians were really kind of,

they kind of kept the tight grasp on their techniques.

They didn't really, they liked the money, but they didn't really love showing Americans in the 90s.

You know, did you just do that?

They were kind of a nationalistic pride thing.

Well, Rodrigo, certainly Hanzo, you know, exceptions to prove the rule.

Because they definitely opened up their mind to me, and they really,

like, gave me a lot of incredibly great insights into Schitz.

And, you know, I'll always get eternally grateful.

But, so get this, Rodrigo, we do private for 75 bucks, right?

And we do an hour.

And then, at the end of the hour, he's like, okay, private's over.

Now I get to get some training in. Let's roll.

And we want to roll into 45 minutes, for free.

He just rolled me.

Because he wanted to get a workout in.

And then he's like, hey, hungry much because I was getting pizza.

And we could ask him to get pizza and eat pizza for the pizza.

Just like, I mean, you know, nowadays, forget about it.

What takes him like 3,000 or 5,000 dollars for a private?

I think most sellers get that, Amy.

Something crazy like that.

I don't think he charges quite as much as Hickson would.

But, yeah, I mean, my soul has to be getting up until the $1,000 to 5,000.

I can't imagine it to die unless the last.

When you're from, are you from the Manhattan area?

When you say New York, is that upstate New York?

Is that in the city?

What part of New York are you from?

I was about maybe 10 minutes north of the Bronx.

So I was pretty close to Manhattan.

I worked in Manhattan for 10 years.

But yeah, I lived in lower Westchester.

I don't know if you know what that is.

Very familiar.

Yes.

I'm like, right by the way, I was not too, I was like a 5 minute ride.

I'm going to ride to the White Stone Bridge.

Got you.

And what got you into Gijitsu?

So when I was going to college, I went to college called Binghamton University in New York.

And Binghamton was not a big sports powerhouse to say the least.

And that's being kind.

I had no football team, I had no nothing.

But my thing's growing up, well, in the day, I loved boxing.

With my father, my father was a huge boxing fan.

And that was our thing.

When I was a kid, I was like 10, 11 years old.

And my father was, because back before there was pay-per-view, I don't know how old you are,

but before there was pay-per-view, there was something called close circuit television.

And you'd have to go to some pretty CV places to watch these high-end fights.

Usually they were like dog tracks or horse racing tracks.

And after the race was over, all the TVs that were mounted up there for the race results

would broadcast the fight.

And here I am, just like 10, 11, 12-year-old kid, don't know my tag.

To go watch Hagler, Herndt, Hagler Mugabi, Leonard Durand, Warren, Leonard Durand 2.

And that was like our father something.

It wasn't baseball, it wasn't football, it was boxing.

And the day I joined 16, I got a driver's license.

The day I got my license, I went and found a boxing gym in the Bronx.

And I started boxing at 16.

And I did that.

I was still a kid too, an immature.

I get real serious about boxing for like six months, or eight months.

And then I slack off and not really commit the way you would really want to see somebody commit to doing this point like that.

And then in college, I started competing and training at this place called the Undercop boxing Club,

and just a little fun fact is we're John Jones' club.

He grew up in Enthicott.

And so my senior year of college, I knew it was kind of my last chance to do something with boxing because I was going to have to go get a real job after college.

So I committed to the Golden Gloves.

I went through the tournament.

And you know, lucky for me, I actually wanted the New York State Golden Gloves in 95 in the NOS division.

So to me, fighting was always about striking, about boxing.

I didn't have a lot of respect for traditional martial arts from what I'd seen.

You know, they really didn't.

Yeah, it wasn't popular as much in the US.

A lot of it was unknown too.

Well, yeah, so just to give you a timeframe when this was, when I got exposed to Brazilian Giuquitsu, UFC wanted just happened.

And UFC 2 was just about to go off.

And I remember seeing the ads for those back of the day.

And they had the cage and the ads.

The marketing for it was very bloody and stuff like that.

So I really didn't think it was real.

I thought it was wrestling.

I thought it was another wrestling organization.

Like Steel Cage match type of thing.

And I didn't even give it a second thought.

So lo and behold, I'm going to college.

And I literally just gotten done with the New York State Golden Gloves tournament.

And a mutual friend introduced me to this guy named John Burke.

And John had probably had, I would have to say, in terms of real-time training, probably about six months of training spread out over like a year and a half or two years.

Like you said, if you were going to train back then, you had to go to LA, you had to go to Brazil.

So John would go out to LA for a week and train with the great, you know, train with the great security academy for a week.

He'd come back and he'd work on what he learned with his buddy.

And then next break he'd get, he'd go out for a week training and then trying, remember as much as it occurred.

So his progress is obviously a lot different than it would be today when there's just wealth of you just acknowledge out there and YouTube and idiots.

And you know, besides the fact that there's a good school now and pretty much every major city in the country.

Well, anyway, John was introduced to me.

So that's that I was a boxer.

And he said, hey, you know, I'd really like to fall with you because, you know, I've never spotted a boxer before.

He kind of explained to me a little bit about you just to it made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

Because you know, fighting to me was about punching and kicking to me was more about punching.

And so the day we go to spar, John's like a tall, right to die.

And he says to me right, like literally right before we're going to spar goes look, man, I need to grab like my style needs to grab you.

So I can't I don't want to wear the gloves.

So what I'll do is I won't punch you if anything else is smack you.

And I was putting on 12 ounce gloves.

And I was like, let me get this straight.

You're going to smack me, but I could punch you with 12 ounce gloves.

He's like, yeah, if you're cool with that, I'm like, and my hand have gone, bro, your funeral.

No problem. Like this is literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

You're going to get murdered.

Because like I said, martial arts to me traditional martial arts.

I just didn't have a lot of respect for it.

Anytime I spared with somebody coming to my karate background or, you know, a black belt and type one or whatever, I always came to it.

Very unoppressed.

Yeah.

Yeah. Because they just typically don't spar hard.

So, you know, the first time they get tagged in the chin, it's like a whole new world to them.

You know, and so me and John start going.

And, you know, within the time they said go to the time I was on my back getting choked out was like 10 seconds.

And I was like, what?

Can I curse by the way on this podcast?

Absolutely.

I was like, what the fuck just happened to me?

Boy, you know, because, you know, like I said, I was the novice division obviously, but I still did win a state title.

And, you know, I felt like, like I was, you know, I was young, a lot of testosterone.

I thought I was like a Billy badass.

And to be absolutely manhandled like that, I couldn't accept it at first.

So, I was like, let's go again.

And we went again, anything left any longer than that.

And we went again, and again, the same result over and over and over again.

So, after I don't know about pan of them, I was like, what are you doing?

I'm going to learn this.

Yeah, I got to learn this shit.

And I sat back then, because I started around 94.95.

I felt like when the USC went off,

it was like a bomb going off in the martial arts world.

And people either did one of two things.

They saw the brilliance of it.

They saw the effectiveness of it

and said, I gotta learn that.

Or they said, they put their, like I call it the Austria's defense.

They stuck their head in the sand and said,

well, that'll never work on me.

Nobody over take me down.

And they just pretended it didn't exist.

You know, it didn't exist.

And that's the way it was for a really long time.

Like people either assimilated with it

or they got it run over.

Or again, they would just stand there a little,

they're a little ponds where they all did

whether it was Taikwondo or whatever.

And they never ventured outside of that.

So as you got, as you started to learn,

you learned from him a little bit.

And then where did you go from there?

That's when you moved to California.

Well, yeah, so I started out with John,

you know, to this day like myself.

Is he at Orlando?

Yeah, he's in Orlando.

All right, the same guy.

That's cool.

Absolutely great guy.

Love and the death.

And you know, like I said, he exposed me not only

to the teaching me, but he gave me like what was called

the Gracie in Action Takes.

So before the UFC was a thing, when

William Gracie first came over to this country,

you know, he'd probably brought with him

the Gracie challenge, which they hadn't

Brazil for decades.

And for what happened was, you know,

if you're a martial arts instructor

and you're the student, you know,

if you're the school, we say, you know, whatever,

200 students.

And you take the Gracies up on their Gracie challenge

and you go in there and it was all very respectful.

And it was, you know, the Gracies have always been, you know,

a lot of people kind of misinterpret the Gracies

with what they say.

Like they don't say that they're the toughest guys in the world.

They say that their art is the most effective art in the world.

And to prove that, by then, they did the Gracie challenge

and they basically said, you know, we'll find any other art.

We will guarantee that our guy is the smaller guy in the fight.

And, you know, we'll do it for free or we'll do it for money.

But, you know, we're really our goal is to show you

the effectiveness and to show people the holes in their game.

Because, you know, ground fighting was not a thing at all

in this country.

And, you know, wrestlers were always,

nobody ever thought of a wrestler as being, you know, a fighter.

And yet, you know, any good division one talent wrestler

would have done like tight as long as Ed is three seconds flat, you know.

So, the Gracies started this Gracie challenge

and they would document the fight on, you know, VHS.

And the problem is though, if you're in the school with 200 students,

that's how you make your living.

And you take the Gracies up on your challenge

because you're so sure you're going to win.

And then you get man-angled in 12 seconds

by some skinny Brazilian who takes you down, takes you back at Joe Chow.

You're not going to run back to your school and be like, hey guys,

this new art I just found way better than my show in Memphis

Cranestyle, you know, Kung Fu, whatever.

And so, it didn't really get the bump

that Warion I think was expecting from it.

So, what basically happened was Warion wound up, you know,

was kind of this really like closely held secret in California, you know.

And it was slowly spreading, but it was really, really just this tight circle

in like the Redondo Beach, Florence area.

But pretty soon, you know, guys like Adonio, you know, Albundi started training.

How about Adonio, graduated from my high school?

Is that right?

It's that funny.

It is.

It is the guy in the world.

I got a great reminder to tell you, because me and Adonio have been friends for pushing 30 years now.

They remind me to tell you an Adonio story before this is over,

because this will really give you insight into what an incredibly good man Adonio is.

From Youngstown, Ohio.

Yeah.

Youngstown, Ohio, he, any place for the Steelers.

Yup.

Yup.

How did you make it to, how did you end up making it to Tampa?

And starting, you know, starting to grow that, you know, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Tampa.

Well, real quick, when when when when Ed started training with the Gracies,

another guy, the guy who brought Ed in was a guy by the name of John Millius.

John Millius was the director and producer of Conan the Barbarian,

as well as Apocalypse Now and some other, you know, major, major, major movies.

And they basically said, D'Ahorian, you know, you've got to come up with a, you know,

we got a showcase just the masses.

And they kind of put their heads together and they came up with the UFC.

And, you know, some funny stuff like they, you know, they really wanted to, you know,

really capitalize that.

I'm sorry Simon, once quick deck I gotta go through this totally and once quick deck.

Yup, don't sweat it.

I don't want to mess with this up all on one set.

So, so, so what's your call with the, the, so they do their, what's your call with?

They do their, you know, they get together and they're trying to figure out, you know, best bang for the buck.

And I'm out to, I'm out to get the word out and you know, they come up with this, you know,

trying to get it on paper view.

And if you heard some of the ideas that they were like, throwing around before they finally came up with the Octagon,

they were going to do like a moat filled with alligators around the cage.

Oh wow.

And yeah, like, like they had some really crazy airbrained ideas, but they finally settled on the, you know,

the Octagon or whatever else.

You know, the rest of the history of the world got exposed.

So, so like I said, I started with, with John in 94 ish 95.

And then in, in John was gracious enough him and hoist and him and off.

They just, for that, for whatever reason, like they just clicked, like, immediately, they became fast friends,

like, Austin, Austin, John.

And this summer before I went out there, John was going to go out for the whole summer.

You know, for Kyle and spend the entire summer training.

And this is how freaking cool voices.

So here he is. He's already the UFC champ.

You know, like I said, UFC wanted to happen.

UFC two had happened at this point, maybe.

So John mentions the hoist when he's out there training for a week.

He's like, hey, you know, I'm really looking to come out for a whole summer.

You know, I'm a pro college kid.

You know of any like, I just need a room.

I just need a room with a bed.

Like, I don't need anything.

I just, you know, I just want to train.

Can I maybe even kind of sleep on the mats here?

Like something, you know, because, you know, a pro college kid.

Well, hoist was like, hey, well, I'm getting married this year, but Mary has not moved in until the end of the summer.

So why don't you just live in my house.

So he better even knew John that well.

And I know I'm into his house. It's crazy.

And vitamin two is house for the entire summer.

So John now as like that, you know, a 20 year old kid woke up every morning, got in the truck with hoists.

Went to the school with hoists, trained all day, went home with hoists.

They made dinner. They hung out, watched TV.

And they really developed a really fast friendship.

Which, which for me really, really helped me out of the lot because I was John's good friend.

And, you know, it allowed me access to the graces that I probably would never have gotten.

Without without John, you know, or would have taken me a long time.

Yeah, it would have taken me a long time to try and develop that type of relationship with hoists.

But because, you know, he knew me and John were fighting.

Voice, voice, you know, was super cool to me and involved me in things that, you know, a brand new speed means you just just doesn't get to do with the great.

Because you gotta remember, this is when hoist was the undefeated UFC champ.

Yeah, crazy blowing up all over people didn't even know what the hell happened.

Yeah, they just watch mob everywhere we go.

We get mob like, you know, here I am.

I've been trained to get to like what hits me to this point out in California.

And I'm going to Magic Mountain with voice crazy, why I'm grace seeing their kids.

And John birth and hanging out, you know, at Magic Mountain all day with crazy family.

Talk about some love. Talk about some love for the white belts.

Give it some love for the white belts.

Totally surreal, totally surreal. I wouldn't have trained, changed it for anything, man.

That summer was incredible. So yeah, I went out, I lived out there for the whole summer.

And I trained to get to like 12 hours a day.

And because I was training so much, I literally, I got my blue belt in 14 days.

I started my training in earnest on June 1st, 1995.

And voice gave me my blue belt on June 14th, 1995.

I mean, that sounds better than it actually was because I literally was training 12 hours a day.

So if you just look at the amount of hours, it's probably about six,

what most people train in like six or eight months, I got done in 14 days.

You know, just because of the amount of training, I just immersed myself in Jigetsu.

And so I trained out there for the summer. I came back to New York and people were networking around.

Like people, you know, everybody wanted to learn to get to a lot of people were doing what I was doing,

which was going out there training with the great things coming back to whatever their hometown was.

We're having a few people to practice their stuff on.

And they would, you know, teach them stuff in returns for having basically a practice dump.

And that's kind of what I did for a while.

I had like, there was actually two other blue belts in my area that we got hooked up to the academy.

And so the three blue belts we get together.

And then there was a few other guys that they were training with.

We just get together every single night and training and training and training and training and training.

So finally I just packed up a booth in California.

And I was out there for a year or so. I really didn't like LA. I did not like it at all.

Outside of the training, I hated that place. Absolutely despised it.

I couldn't get out of there fast enough. And when I hurt my knee really bad in a Jigetsu tournament,

I ACL, I'm a military officer there. And without Jigetsu in my life out there,

it really became a miserable circumstances living out there.

So I said, you know what? I'm done. I'm packing up. I'm leaving.

Hang Zowood at that point and opened up in New York City.

So I knew I'd have some exposure to high level Jigetsu.

And the voice is blessing. I moved to New York.

And I started a network, a training network for voice grace.

It was the voice grace of training network where I became the head instructor in Westchester County.

And I would supplement that by going down to the Manhattan and training at the end of those.

And you know, I'd take the occasional problem when I dream those well.

And that was basically my life. For the next decade I trained every night.

I get home from working in Manhattan, you know, at seven o'clock.

Where were you working at?

I started believing in the county. I gave them the county degree.

And I worked for three years as an accountant. And then I despised them with such a passion.

The only reason why I even did accounting was I wanted to go to the Fiat.

And I knew they took the county's lawyers. And I didn't want to go to law school.

I figured accounting would be the quickest way in.

But it turned out back then my vision, although it was correctable to 2020,

it was the uncorrected level was too low for them.

They wouldn't accept me because my vision was too low, uncorrected.

And back then, laser surgery was an automatic disqualifier.

Now it's not because there's enough, you know, there's been enough time to see that.

Evidence and technology and stuff.

Yeah, there's no problems. But I can't hear you.

You did 10 years in New York. And then after 10 years,

did you move directly to Florida?

Yeah, so what happened was just this incredible convergence of circumstance and what happened.

Like I didn't tell you know, I made, I made a decision.

Like I was miserable, you know, like when I went into the county,

you know, I was miserable in the county and the county didn't pay me shit.

But then I got into recruiting for accounting to finance,

which paid significantly more money,

but the stress levels were significantly higher too.

So I was making a ton of money for a 20-some year old,

but ton of money. But I was miserable.

I mean, every day I'd wake up and I swear to God that a long clock would go off.

And I would contemplate suicide every goddamn morning.

When I freaking a long clock would go off.

It's a dark plague.

Yeah, getting into that, you know, getting on that train and doing that.

And the accounting worked that shit right there.

No way.

And it's like, you know, it's like everybody's a lemmon.

You're all lemmings like in your suit and tie,

you're all marching to the same direction.

I just felt like I was like a lemmon every day.

I just wasn't me. Like I knew I couldn't do this full time.

I knew I couldn't do this long term.

I knew that just wasn't going to be my calling.

So I decided I'm going to open up a school.

But I didn't talk to a hoist about it at that point.

And my ex-wife wanted to move back to Florida. She's from Tampa.

And...

So she had been talking about moving back for a few years.

And again, my experience in LA was so bad that I really didn't think in New York

of which sitting anywhere else in the country.

I really didn't.

And so I had no desire to move to Tampa.

And she kept on me about it, kept on me about it, kept on me about it.

And then I finally said, like, look, you know what?

I'll give you a shot.

I'll relocate to Florida for you.

But, you know, she had a good job herself.

And I'm like, you know, I'm going to do this for a living.

I mean, give it a year to see if I can make this work.

That's the trade-off.

Like, I'm going to teach you to for living.

And I want to, and I want to be a year of trying to make it work.

And sure enough, I was profitable my first month.

And I mean, not a lot of money.

But I literally made profit the first month I opened up.

It's fast for a business.

It worked out really, really well for me, you know.

And, you know, I mean, I mean, the relationships and the,

that I've gone through from this down here.

You know, I couldn't be happier with, you know, number one,

that I do so living.

I mean, I love to get to, I absolutely love.

There's nothing cool to get done with that.

And, you know, you have a student struggling with a move,

struggling with technique.

And you point out one little detail that they're missing.

And that looking their eyes were they like, oh, that's why.

I was looking for that piece to the puzzle.

Now I can connect the rest of the puzzle, right?

And that never gets old, man.

That never gets old.

Like, to this day, like, when I see that little spark,

when I feel like I've just connected the dots,

just enough to that person to make that move work for them.

Man, that never gets old to me.

It is such, such an enjoyable, you know,

and cool thing to see, you know.

I know, I know one of the black belts that you promoted,

you know, as a close friend of mine and, and, and Bamboo.

And, you know, I don't know if he, you know,

I told you how our relationship started,

but I went to go visit my mom years ago,

maybe six years ago, and I was living on the beach at the time.

And I went to go visit my mom and I was looking for a place to,

to train, and she was right, you know,

she lived right around a corner from, from where he was at.

And we hit it off so much in the first few times that I trained there.

I started to drive, you know, with traffic off the beach

sometimes would be an hour and a half.

And I would come up there four days a week when I,

when I was in Florida.

So I, I know his Jiu Jitsu, he attributes, you know,

majorly to you.

And, at that point, you know, right now I've been training

almost 10 and a half years.

So I already had, I already had four years under my belt.

If you, unless I'm traveling, you know,

it's a three, three to four days a week, you know,

for me for the last decade.

And I know,

I didn't say did you start with Bamboo or start to play with Bamboo.

No, I started, I started in Pittsburgh.

In the game with,

a hot, a hot Drey Go Jankuera,

who, who came up with Marcelo in Brazil.

They were blue belts together.

He was one of the, one of the first ones here in, in, in Pittsburgh.

So I started training in Pittsburgh.

And then when I made my way down to Florida,

that's when I really started to get, you know,

introduced to Noge when I started training with Bamboo.

And legs was a whole different world for me.

You know, I felt like I started, I started to bring that to Pittsburgh

in my little, you know, in my area, which is North of Pittsburgh.

You know, I started bringing leg locks and, and stuff more than,

everybody else I was training with was, was accustomed to.

And so I got addicted to it.

You know, at that point, four or five years in,

I was starting to be able to hang with some high level people.

And, you know, I played football in college and, you know,

short and stocky and, you know, all of that stuff decently athletic.

So I was starting to be able to hang with people that had some experience.

And when I went to Florida,

it was a whole new, a whole new world for me.

You know, I felt like a white belt all over again with so much stuff

that I didn't know and from the leg locks to the,

smash the head shoulder pressure, Curtis, Curtis.

I'm a chair to see you.

Chair to see you.

And how many black belts have you promoted down there?

I know you've promoted some sick black belts down there in Bamboo.

Just one of them.

You know, it's crazy like it's hard to even do jack because,

you know, the way that you get to work,

you have to be a black belt,

like the least four years before you could promote a black belt.

So, you know, guys say like JR, you know, I'm sure you know JR.

He's a beast.

He's definitely a beast.

But like JR is technically my black belt,

but he did, you know, obviously he is training with Bamboo.

Bamboo is really a instructor,

but Bamboo had, he had the four years as a black belt yet.

So I can, you know, me and Bamboo promoted him together.

You know, he is obviously Bamboo student,

but I am the black belt of record on him,

you know, and so we've had scenarios like that where,

you know, some of my students have just didn't have the timing.

Either way, your grandpa, no matter who promotes him,

you know, that's how it started with you.

I'm still the, I'm still proud.

If I'm not daddy, I'm grandpa, the lot of these guys.

That's it.

But let's see.

I had my first black belt was Justin Garcia up in New York.

And it was great.

I actually just did a podcast with him yesterday.

We had a blast for like an hour and so on.

And then Matt, Matt Aroyo, obviously see itself.

This sector.

Yeah, he's the one of us South Travis Nagle.

Probably I've heard of because he kind of,

he'd run a school in Mississippi for a while.

And then he went into becoming a physician's assistant.

And he's still trained and stuff,

but he's not like running a school or anything like that anymore.

But what a, like, what a savage on the mat.

He was and not a royale is another just observed savage on the mat.

You know, bamboo, I don't need to tell you what a savage bamboo is.

Then God, there's just so many by Justin Pope.

There's your badger, sorry.

Jesus, I am a midget, I'm a twister.

Yeah, I'm a little, yeah, that's representing the females.

Yeah, damn, she's still the only female black belt that we have.

Then we had, you know, Lewis,

Lewis and Aaron Aaron's about to get her black belt.

Did Dan get his black belt yet?

Dan Martinez, yeah.

Yeah, Dan got in a couple years ago.

That kid is a savage like beast.

He is, but obsessed with training,

obsessed with the training, put the work in.

You know, I put the work in without question.

He is one of the best, you know, best young black belts in the country.

Like he is a threat to be anybody, anybody.

And that kid's on his game.

He could be anybody, period like an period that can't be just a monster.

And I know I'm leaving people out.

Oh, you're out of your 15.

I know there's more out there.

I had a business question for you.

Building those, you know, building what was a business that just was your passion that you love down there.

What obstacles did you, you know, can you point out any or remember any obstacles

in building, you know, building it down there, anything you had to overcome?

Personal or professional honor off the mat obstacles.

Well, you know, I honestly like, I think especially in the building of it,

I took some good lessons from other people that I observed.

Like, for example, like, I saw some people who, you know, went out

and they kind of took the whole, you know, if you build it, they'll come mentality.

And so they put a lot of money into the school, you know, like kind of went out on debt

with the idea that, you know, the school is just going to blow that fast.

And I saw the stress that that put on them for a number of years trying to make ends meet.

Expand now. So, so I really, I think the best lesson I learned back then was, you know,

I found a very small little aerobics room in the back of Paul Tussittness.

And I remember my, my red was 500 bucks a month.

And I got the, you know, the whole mat space, my whole gym, I say was probably,

I'm going to say 500 square feet of mat space maybe. That's it.

And, but, you know, I got to share the locker room for the gym, you know, like they allow me to use the locker room for my students.

So, but I don't think I, you know, if I, I think I was charging 100 bucks a month.

So, my first five students, I was pretty needed.

And I think in the first month, I opened the head like nine students.

So, I was, I was in the black. You know, and I stayed, I stayed a few years.

We glued the like 100 students in that little spot.

And I refused to move until I absolutely positively had to move like we just could not fit another person on that mat.

So, I wound up moving over to the flutcher in the brasta location.

And, and then from there, you know, we were there for like 12, 13 years.

And then a couple years ago, we just moved over to Florida and and bars.

And to a much more visible location.

And, you know, I just, I never wanted to over extend myself. That was kind of like my thing.

So, great. Like never over extend yourself.

And, and that served me really well because I saw the people, you know, they, they went out.

They took out loans or got from there.

They took out like unsecured debt on a credit card.

And, you know, then they get crushed.

And then now they're just, you know, they're just running the cover of the interest now every month.

And I just didn't want that to be me.

You know, the other thing I'll say is like, I still have this incredible love for Getsu.

And like I said, it never gets old. Like you see a student, you know, progress.

You see him getting better. And especially in those moments where it's something that you can literally trace back to something you said to him.

That resonates. And you could see that it changed the game.

Like there's, there's, it is such a gratifying thing.

But by the same token, you know, anything you do every day that's making you a living starts to become a job to a degree.

Now, like I said, I, my love of Getsu is not dampered at all.

But like all the other stuff that goes into running a business, you know, can get, can get stressful and annoying.

You know, the market is a bit of that. Like I don't take a lot of great pleasure in that part of it.

You know, and it, like sometimes you can't break the two.

So, you know, like I said, it does become a job to a degree.

But that goes right out the window the second I get on the mat and start teaching and training.

Like that goes away, you know, that it comes back out. It comes back when you, you know, when you're done teaching and training that thing.

You got to sit down and look at your bills and figure out the marketing and all the other stuff that you got to do.

What tips, you know, what tips would you give for maximum progression?

You know, for, you know, I think the first one you already kind of gave away is that, you know, you put a few weeks.

You know, it sounds like only a few weeks, but you put six months of work into, into two weeks.

So, that's one way I would assume you would probably suggest for people to get better, just obsess over it and put the time in.

Condenta a year into three months and you're going to progress a whole lot quicker to everybody else.

What other tips would you give, you know, if you're, if I'm investing two hours here and I can invest the same exact two hours, you know, how do you maximize those two hours, you know, anything that you would suggest?

Absolutely. Great question. Great question.

And so I have what I call the sweet pillars of jujitsu.

Okay. Jujitsu lends itself to technical discussion.

And just it for better or worse, it lends itself to a technical discussion, meaning that, you know, you come on the matter of the instructor, you got 20, whatever, 20, 30.

And it's very easy for me to go, okay, guys, today we're going to go over the triangle.

Right, step A, put you for here, step B, you know, this light comes up and bite, step C, grab your, you know, and you can step by step walk through.

The student is now gratified because they, you know, they, they, they learn step by step for triangle.

And so they feel like they've gotten some out of it and they have to, to a degree.

But there's that's just the technical portion and the technical portion, I know this is going to sound crazy from a, from a jujitsu instructor to say this, but the, the technical portion of jujitsu is overrated.

Technique without proper strategy is, is, I would say it's useless, but it's very, very hindered.

So strategy, meaning the setup, the setup, you know, how do you get a guy who knows better to put his arm in that position?

You know, I'm saying like, yep, how do you get a guy to, you know, because to catch you, I, you know, as well as I do, if the guy doesn't know, you get to, you, you don't, you should have to look anyway.

He's going to, he's going to put his arm in long spot ever the way and you're going to catch him.

But for example, like, technique, you're talking about, you know, going step by step through the techniques.

Again, it's just easy. It's one of the tough times. And, and I, I'm guilty of this too. I think you get to structures as a,

as a whole, kind of get a little bit lazy.

And they come in and they say, okay,

today we're gonna go over the triangle.

Today we're gonna go over the albat.

Today we're gonna go over the choke from the back or whatever.

And people get a lot out of the class

and they learn the technique.

But how do you then, on a consistent basis,

explain to somebody how to create these openings?

And not some unresistant opponent,

or an opponent who doesn't know anybody,

how do you get a guy who knows better

to put his arm in the wrong spot?

How do you get a guy who knows better

to do some of this stuff?

And that to me is the strategy.

That's where this strategic elements come in.

And you touched our earlier for top position,

for dominant position.

You can't talk about technique

unless you're talking about pain compliance

and using pain compliance to force,

I don't force moves.

I'll never force the move.

You can't force the move against a stronger guy,

but I can make you so uncomfortable

that I could force him to take.

And what I call it is a following system.

So I know given a certain stimulus of pressure

or pain compliance, I can get you within,

I know within probably two or three moves,

what you're going to do given that certain stimulus.

Given that certain pressure,

given that certain stimulus,

I know within two or three moves,

how you're going to react to it.

The only question is how long is it going to take?

And that's really also contingent upon how effective

I am at creating that pressure.

So now, like I said, I call it funneling.

I'm funneling you now down a path

of three potential ways.

That's it.

Whereas if you don't funnel like that,

you know, use that pain compliance.

I call it roodex style jiu-jitsu.

And to me, roodex style jiu-jitsu,

unfortunately, is the style that I think

more people play than any other.

And what happens is because people are learning

the technique in a vacuum,

they're learning these techniques in a vacuum.

When they're now rolling,

they're basically, they get to a certain position,

maybe a position of dominance,

and they take like a snapshot in their head.

They're like, okay, what's out of place?

What's wrong?

What can I take advantage of here?

And they have to go into their head like a roodex.

They want to their roodex to see what is open,

given what's there.

And guess what?

By the time they get to the answer,

the position has changed.

And instead of forcing out towards the two

or three things that you want,

that's already for exactly.

So instead of funneling them down the path,

well, I know where they're gonna be,

and then that's you second.

They're gonna be in one of three positions.

I could easily keep, you know, if you do A,

I got B, if you do C, I got D, if you do E, I got F.

Yeah, quicker mental response.

Much quicker mental response.

In fact, it's not even a response.

It's an anticipation.

So you're going from reacting to anticipating,

to a large degree.

And it just, that's harder to explain the people.

And there's a lot more ambiguity to discussing that.

Then say, you know, like technique,

technique is much more cutting-dried.

You know, A to B to C to D.

And so now I said there's three pillars.

So the one pillar, obviously is technique.

And again, I'm not shitting on technique

because obviously the technique that you get to

is really one of the main things

that's separated from any other martial art.

But the strategies of Getsu is really to me

what separates it from, you know, like go to any

Sambo book or any judo book and look up triangle-choco on bar.

They look just like the same triangle-choco on bar

that we have in Getsu.

Right, the difference is the strategies we implored

get the person to make those mistakes

because in those arts, they tend to force moves,

we force mistakes.

We create scenarios that force mistakes

and then take advantage of the mistake.

That makes sense.

It does.

Yup, so technique strategy.

And the last piece which to me, believe it or not,

will give people the best, the biggest bang for the buck

in the shortest period of time.

I call it training structure.

So your technique, your strategy,

now you have training structures.

So the easiest way for me to explain that to you is,

if we could get you to down to its two biggest components,

would be offense and defense.

Right, I mean, I don't think you could break you to down

anymore in terms of two bigger components

than offense and defense, right?

Well, I don't think anybody will argue with me

that defense is much more natural, much more intuitive.

And I could prove that out to you in two seconds

because what's the first thing you notice

in your 10 years of training when you have a newer student

among the mat and he's been there for a couple months,

what's the first thing you notice when he starts getting better?

He's harder to catch, right?

Yes.

He's an anticipation, he's understanding of the on bar,

he might not have the understanding of the on bar

to the point where he could react

and do it on you or do it on a,

you know, doing on another student just yet.

But he now at least sees the visual cues

of when the on bar is coming

and he can defend it much better.

It's much more instinctive.

So offense is my part of the learning and defense.

Yet most people are under the mistaken belief

that to take good, you know,

you always hear iron sharpens,

iron and all this type of stuff.

And there's truth to that.

But the example I like to use is you got a newer,

newer blue belts maybe an experienced white belt,

you know, a virgin blue belt, right?

I'm going to give you scenarios.

You tell me what you think.

So this newer blue belt comes in

and in the room that day for the next six months,

he's got me, Matt Aroyo, you bamboo, you know,

tick, you know, Tony Wei,

you know, tick your poison, you know,

that murder is low people, right?

So every day those are his farm partners.

Okay.

After six months of training,

of hard training with those murderers,

with that murderers low guys,

how many on boxes that got caught?

None.

None. How many triangles?

None.

None.

So, you know, like the myelination of nerves,

the only way you could myelinate your nerves

to react in a timely manner to get these submissions

is by conscious reps of them under resistance.

You know, there's a big difference between, you know,

like obviously you need that.

Like you need that, you need that part of class where

I, I rep it on you three or four times.

You rep it on me three or four times.

You switch back and forth with no resistance.

Of course, you definitely need that.

But what you, what you need every bit as much

if or is a resisting opponent that you can still get it on.

So live training with someone that's your,

your pace or even below?

Yes, especially below.

So, so I, I, I institute what I call the 70-30 rule.

So out of every 10 roles, seven should be with people

you ever had it because really when we boil this stuff down

and I'll give you the name of a great book

that will like really do a much better job

of explaining tonight time.

The myelination of nerves and I'm not,

are you familiar with, with the process of myelination?

No.

So basically I don't want to, you know,

like spend too much time on this and bore your listeners.

But so any athletic movement, whatever it is,

playing guitar, playing drums, catching a football,

throwing a football, whatever.

The first time you do it, your body basically runs a wire

for a lack of a better way of describing it.

It runs a wire for me, for me to bring to you the,

the muscle groups that are being used, right?

So let's make that the, the example.

So the first time you do an athletic movement,

your body just strings a wire like an electric,

from the A to B, right?

Well, that wire is, is not encoded by any rubber.

So there's, there's a lot of leakage of electricity,

the refractory times a lot slower,

a bunch of different things are a problem.

Well, every time you do that move over and over and over again,

under real situations, under real pressure,

under real training, your body puts a coat of myelon on it.

Myelon for, is basically rubber, it's basically rubber.

And they've done experiments where they, you know,

when they go into the brains of like musicians or athletes,

you can visually see without Microsoft's or anything,

you can see incredible amounts of myelons in their brain

compared to a non athlete,

or compared to a non musician.

You can visibly see how much more myelons is in their brain

and in their central nervous system,

compared to somebody who is not some type of high level

athlete or musician or whatever.

So the myelonation of the nerves is really what speeds

your reaction time for your anticipation,

your refractory time, meaning how fast you could fire it again,

all that stuff.

So, you know, what are we doing with training?

It's really, if you wanna really boil it down,

is to build up myelon on your nerves,

so that you can, you know, you're,

and think about it this way, because myelon,

it's, if you don't train for a while,

you know, you always hear,

I'm out in train for a while, I'm rusty, right?

Myelon, it's almost like you ever hear about

like George Washington Bridge,

they paint the George Washington Bridge,

and when they're done painting it, what do they do?

They start over and they're painting all over again,

because the paint starts to chip, it starts to wear,

by the time they're done, there's already starting to be wear,

and they don't want that metal to start getting oxidized.

So, there's a constant process of painting that bridge

over and over and over again,

to keep it from being oxidized, the metal from being oxidized.

Well, if you don't, if you, you know,

let's say you've been training for a long time,

you've myelon needed the hell out of your nerves,

but now you take the long break,

you come back to feel rusty, you feel rusty,

because the myelons breaking down,

and you haven't been, you haven't been staying on top

of retoting it by training.

So, so that's why there was like that feeling of rust,

and it takes you a few weeks to get back to normal,

because your body has to now start recoding,

and then you don't lose all the myelons,

but it does start chipping and breaking down a little bit.

So, you know, when I'm talking about training,

myelonation of nerve, to me, when I'm rolling,

it's not about winning, it's not about losing,

it's about myelonation of nerves.

I need to get my reps, I need to get my on my reps,

I need to get my triangle reps, I need to get my back reps,

I need to get my escape reps, I need to get everything,

I want to just take basically an inventory of my game,

and every time I roll, I want to get to those positions

at many times as possible,

against the resisting opponent,

to keep that myelonation level high.

Makes a lot of sense.

A lot of sense.

Now, there's a book that I highly recommend,

if you like the sound and stuff.

In fact, if you got a minute,

I'll give you a couple examples

by this book that will absolutely blow your mind.

So the book is called The Talent Code, right?

And it is all about what I just spoke about.

So anybody who's listening,

who writes the sound of this stuff

and they want to improve their athletic performance.

I said it's the talent code.

The talent code, yes.

Anybody listening who wants to improve their athletic performance

in any endeavor, get the talent code.

It's not that you get to book,

it is an athletic performance book,

it is phenomenal.

So give you a couple quick examples

that you're gonna blow your mind.

So historically, up until the 60s and 70s,

Brazil was not a powerhouse of soccer.

They were a laughing stock in soccer, right?

As far as we know, all the lifetime,

all we've known is that Brazil puts out

the best soccer players in the world.

That was not the case in the 40s and the 50s

and even into the 60s was not the case at all.

So what happened, what changed?

Well, in Brazil's a poor country.

Well, I lost you.

I lost you when you said Brazil's a poor country.

Yeah, Brazil's a poor country.

So, but they wanted to do something for the use of Brazil.

So in the for hours and in the inner cities,

they didn't have the space or the money

to make these big soccer, soccer fields.

So what they did was the rough translation,

it's called city soccer, right?

So city soccer was, I don't know how long

the regular soccer field is, but

say 140 yards. Well a city soccer field is like 40 yards right like less than half. And

so what happened was completely accidentally by shrinking down the field like that. I don't

play soccer but let's say just for argument sake, mean you're playing soccer on a regular

field. There might be, and again I'm just guessing, there might be during the course of the

game six or seven times, well I have to ball handle. I have two defenders in front of me

and I get to get by both of them with ball handling skills to pass somebody else or to

go take a goal, right? So maybe that happens in a regular soccer game six times, you know,

six times or ten times. I'm guessing. I don't know. Well, when you shrink down from, you know,

120 yards to 40 or 50 yards, that number goes from six to 10 to like 25 to 30. It's more reps,

right? More live reps. More more more myelination. And do you know who was one of the the absolute first

players to come out of that city soccer league? It wasn't Bamboo Wiseman wasn't. No, I'm joking.

I'm joking. Hey, lay come on. Hey, lay the world. The world, the, you know, the history is

great. It's soccer player. That's one of the. That whole city soccer league and they accidentally hit on

how important it is to myelinate those myelinate those nerves by getting more real time reps.

And almost overnight, not in a generation in a couple of years, they went from a international laughing,

you know, laughing, soccer to an absolute powerhouse in soccer just by tweaking their training

methods. Wow. Come to other quick examples. I forget whether it's North Korea. No, no, no,

it's definitely South Korea. There is a single tennis or course or tennis court in South Korea

that I don't know exactly what they're doing, but same thing they accidentally stumbled on the way

for training to get to get more mile in nation on their on their tennis players, their women's tennis

players. And eventually how it's more, you know, wherever the women's tennis league is, they produce more.

Would you come to know women's tennis players than the entire United States?

Would you compare that to the example you're using on, you know, just training,

getting more reps on people that are, you know, still that are below what your experience level is

to get you more reps at taking a shot? That's exactly what it is. It is exactly that. And,

you know, like the example I used before, if you're rolling with JR and Bamboo and Matt Aroyo and

all these killers, you're just not getting a mile. I mean, are you going to get a lot of benefits?

Not of course. You're going to see higher level setups. Your defense is going to get sharper.

You know, a lot of you get used to being on comfortable and bad positions. Like there's plenty of

benefit that comes out of training with better bias. And you think it's 70-30? You think you should do 70

with people below skill level? I think for most people, especially, you know, in that

area, 70-30 is the magic number. More and more experience. And, you know, you got your game down

more and more. You could drop it back to like a 60-40 scenario. But to be the best fan for the book.

And let me tell you, this is not just something I'm, I'm my guessing at. I've been doing this,

you know, obviously I've been teaching now for almost 30 years. But I've been employing this old

myelination of nerves into teaching for the better part of a decade now. And I've seen

incredible results from it. Incredible results. You know, I noticed the relationships,

you know, that you've built too. And I think in closing, that was the last question I wanted to

get from you was, you know, you mentioned some of the mistakes that you avoided, you know, the

things that you would suggest for somebody open into Jim, not overextending yourself, not, you know,

getting yourself in a least situation where you're, you know, going heavily in debt. What

things would you say you would suggest in closing for somebody trying to build a Jim to do

anything else you would, you would, that sticks out to you as far as building relationships,

anything to get that number to 100 students, you know, quickly.

You know, obviously, you know, marketing is, is, is the lifebloether of the school.

You know, Facebook marketing seems to be the best thing for the buck.

I would ask questions like one of the great things about you, so many people from so many

different walks of life, you know, they all, you know, it is, you just do is like away alive

from people. Like there's most of this thing that the tangible thing is you get to, either you're

really like in love with it or you want nothing to do with it. And, you know, your students will do

anything to help that business drive, because that becomes their second home. And, you know, the

combined expertise of the school, whether it's marketing, whether it's, you know, operations,

whether it's productivity, whether it's whatever, there are so many, you know, there's such a

diversity of skill at the school, you know, take advantage of it, you know, talk to people,

pick their brains like, you know, in whatever field that they're an expert in, you know, like

some people think they, you know, they know they have all the answers. You don't. And,

you know, it being a digital structure and running it to all these different people of all

these different walks of life, you have access to so much knowledge that people would be happy to

help you out. And, you know, answer questions. Yeah, point you in the right direction. I mean,

there's so many things I don't know. But I almost always know where to go to find the answer.

Love it. Love it. Well, I just want to thank you. I want to thank you for your time today, Rob,

and thank you for what you've done for the Getsu world and community, especially in Tampa.

And, you know, maybe one day you got to hook me up with Ed O'Neil former

I'm sorry. Can I do a talk about one Ed O'Neil story? Absolutely. Gotta get it. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So,

so Ed, like when I first started training, you know, like the high net head,

um, married with children was still on the end. So, um, my father to say my father was a married

with a fan is like probably one of the bigger understatements ever said in, in like, um, my father is

a fanat with a fanat. To this stage, he still watches them on VHS every day. He still watches

married with children. So, um, when I when I met Ed out there, Ed took a liking to me right away

because he, he, he, most of all knows, but he is a huge boxing fan. I mean, huge boxing fan.

I really like you. Um, I, I, I think to myself as being like a boxing historian and I very,

rarely run into somebody who knows more about the history of boxing than I do. And Ed is that guy. He

knows he is like a library of, of boxing. Youngstown's a big boxing community. Yeah, yeah,

Kelly Cavalch out of there. And go just had Kelly, I just had Kelly over here last month.

Oh, man, I loved him, man. He was, he could have, you know, he obviously had some personal demons,

but man, that guy, he could have been, you know, one of these generations, best fighters, man.

If he, if he, if he just did a couple of things differently, he was super talented guy, man.

So, um, so get this. Um, Ed, um, you know, I, I, I had, you know, and again, like, he and

Ed were friends, we would train what would happen was we train, you know, Ed would take a

private with Horyean then after the private a lot of times, you know, he loved to talk. So, like,

we'd go over to like see plantation and we, we'd talk boxing for, for an hour, or we'd sit around the

school, you know, the academy and talk about boxing. Well, he was coming into New York. I'd

moved back to New York. He was 98 and he, he called me up to sit, hey, man, for all months.

And I'm going to get some training in. Can, you know, can you, do we hook it up? I'm like,

gas course. So, um, you know, I made the huge mistake of telling my father that Ed or Neil was

coming to town. So my dad's like, I got to meet him. I got to meet him. I got to meet him. I got to

meet him. I'm like, all right, dad, but listen, you know, nobody likes to talk about their job.

Like you like to stealers. He plays for the Steelers. Talk to him about the Steelers. You love

boxing. He loves boxing. Talk about boxing. Just don't, don't talk about marriage children, please.

You know, like when you meet him, right? So, so I call it bad. And I'm like, look at, man, I

hate to ask this to you, you know, but my dad did huge fan. Like, is there any way I can, you know,

bring you by and introduce you to my dad? No joke. You know, his response was, um, of course,

no problem. Would you like to come to dinner to your house or something? Love, man. I was like,

I, I'm sorry, what, what did you just say? He's like, yeah, you want me to come to dinner to your house?

I'm, I don't know. What, what do you want to do? I'm like, you come to dinner at my house.

My family's house. He's like, yeah, let's do it. So, so not only does he, he comes to my family's

house. So he sits down to my, my family's dinner table with my mother and my father and my sister.

And of course, oh, my god, but get this. This is now still wanted. Now I was mad to tell

my father for the first few minutes, but then it totally turned out to be a great thing. Um,

I, you know, after telling my dad over and over and over again to lay off the matter with

children's stuff within like 10 minutes of head being there. My father's like, remember the scene

when you were in the supermarket and you kept dropping the bits so the girl with the big boobs

had to keep bending over to get the, um, like, oh my god. Like, but do you know what I did? This

house freaking gracious this guy was. Ed went into character and for about 20 minutes, did

scenes for my father. He remembered the, the dialogue and he did scenes for my father for about

25 or 30 minutes. Wow. Whatever scene my father wanted to do. Wow. And let me tell you something.

To watch him transform into Al Bundy was one of the coolest things I've ever seen because,

you know, Ed, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of Ed in Al Bundy, but you know,

there's certainly not the same guy at all. But like the only way I could describe this was he

like shook his face and he just became this cartoon version of Ed. And like, you know, his mannerism

and everything. And I just watched him transform into Al Bundy in my living room. It was one of

the coolest freaking things I've ever seen because I was also obviously used my children's

and not only my dad, but I mean, you talked to him ever now. Oh, yeah, we talk about once every

couple of months, we still anytime there's basically you could set your clock to it. Like when there's

a big box match, the next day we talked for like two hours, like guaranteed. You got to do me a

favor. The next time you talk to him, you got to tell him, I saw him, I think he was on Boom Boom's

podcast, Boom Boom Man, Saini's in Youngstown. Yeah, yeah, they're good friends. You got this young

kid from Youngstown, Ohio, his hometown, same school. First ever state championship in football.

We won. And I was the first ever to do it. I was a captain on the team. So you got to help me.

Yeah, see if you'll jump on the podcast and in college. I want to be for me.

I absolutely will. I promise you. You know, man, by the same token, you did not score four

touchdowns of one one game at all. No, that's not like Mr. Bundy did absolutely not. Come on,

you demand. Hey, I look forward to seeing you down and down and tamp off. Be there in November.

Maybe we can maybe we can link up. I absolutely. And I promise you when I talk to Ed again,

I will, I will, I will mention you to him and see if I can get him to do a call calling on your

show. You demand. You demand. All right, I appreciate you brother. Thanks, hobby. I appreciate you, man.

Thanks for having me on, man. I really had a good time. Talk soon.