Steelers #92 James “Deebo” Harrison

Count money, man.

Money that gritches.

I'm trying to told trying to told him I'm a beast.

What's up?

Welcome back to another episode of the Grand Casc get ready.

It's a new day.

We got a special special guest in the house today.

Trying to play it cool, but I got to be real with you, man.

I'm super excited to have you in the in the Grand Casc studio today, man.

It was it was a dream come true for you to say yes to coming on to the podcast today.

So we got James, Debow, Harrison in the house, former Pittsburgh Stealer, all pro linebacker,

five time all pro, two time Super Bowl champion, current Steelers record holder with 80 and a half

sacks.

I believe the most sacks out of any Stealer 15 year NFL vet.

And then one of the famous plays that he's known for is the interception, 100 yard interception

return in the Super Bowl, arguably one of the greatest Super Bowl plays, definitely defensively

of all time, which stands out about this gentleman is also was undrafted and went from undrafted,

cut multiple times before he made it in the NFL to defensive player of the year.

Talk about overcoming some adversity.

You know, it's one thing to be a first round draft pick, first person taken overall.

And it's another thing to take the dirty route, the grind route, cut multiple times undrafted

to defensive player of the year.

And I know we got a lot of our listeners, our sports fans, but some are not in a lot of business

folks.

So for the business folks out there that aren't into football as much to go from undrafted

to defensive player of the year, I think the only person at that time, I don't know if

it's been done since never been done, never been done, never was done before, never been done

since.

That's how hard it is to do to go from undrafted to basically devoted on the best defensive

player in all of the NFL is unheard of.

So that has a lot more to do with heart, mindset, gut and grit, probably even more so than

physical gifts and talents, which is what I'd like to open up with is talking a little

bit about the adversity that you went through, you know, being cut three times going to

NFL, you're coming back, getting cut again.

You were just talking to me about five or six years it took you to even be a starter,

you know, from that point forward, how did you get through that adversity?

It was just, you know, to be honest with you, getting through it the first time was basically

just me sitting down and being like, you know what, I need to learn what I'm doing.

Like my first year of doing, I didn't know what I was doing, you know, I literally

stopped in the middle of a play, like, yo, practice, give me out here, I don't know what

I'm doing because they started motion and addicted to both defense, dude, it is hard.

You change, you get emotion and enough, you go from just free blitz to, you know, you

cover somebody, man, man, you know, so for me, it was, you know, I needed to mature

and sit down and start to learn and understand and comprehend the game.

And you know, that gave me a better chance of sticking around.

And, you know, I was always told that I was too slow, I was too short, you know, I was

too, you know, slow, whatever it may be for the game.

So when you tell me something that I can't do, that drives me to prove you wrong.

Like people who was like, oh, you're going to do this, you're going to do that, it's great.

I don't, my motivate, I don't, that's cool, that's not my motivation, but somebody

that told me I can't do something, I'm not going to do something, you'll never be

nothing.

That's the person I want to prove wrong.

So it was just, you know, how often did you hear you were too small, too slow?

When did you start hearing that?

I started hearing that as soon as the drive started.

Like soon as, you know, they started, you know, we'd like a little more size, you know,

prototype linebacker that they want to then was, you know, 6, 3, 2, 50, you know, they

wanted those type of guys, you know, I was six foot, you know, like 240 at the time,

230 at the time.

So that was the prototype they were looking for.

And then, you know, you fast forward and you get into 2008, 2009, now I'm a certain,

the prototype is now six foot, little short dues like me, they trying to get you got

doomerville and all those guys like that.

And they're trying to, you know, they're trying to get that same, but it's an issue with

trying to do that.

If the guy doesn't have a extremely high motor for one and has to be strong because these

guys are going to lay on you and to get around that corner, you got to be able to withstand

that.

Yeah.

I see even looking at one of your signature moves was that old dip and rip in all around

the outside.

It's actually a dip.

So I'm waiting on him to shoot his hand.

I want him to shoot his hand.

So when he shoot his hand, I actually catch it.

So it's a slap rip here, pushing his hand down here, grabbing this arm up under here and

holding here and coming in and pulling through.

You using it to pull you through?

Yeah.

So if he goes to pull it out, all he's doing is pulling back and helping me make the corner

short.

The best thing he could do is just try and back straight up.

Yeah.

There's a lot of think about it in that quick time that you do it.

Some guys were good at it.

Some guys weren't.

And then after that, you got to be able to withstand it with us because they both looked

at it.

I seem like you just dominated with like that was like the one move, even if people knew

even if people knew it was coming, they just couldn't.

They looked the same.

They stopped it.

Bruce, I think it was Bruce Lee that said, I don't fear the man that knows 100 kicks.

I fear the man that knows one kick and practices it 100 times or a thousand times.

Oh yeah.

You got to be able to master something.

You know what I'm saying?

And for me, the speedball, the dude that got me doing the speedball was Kevin Green.

He came in.

You know, and that's what he taught speedball.

Wow.

Up to three steps or five steps, you cut and you just pull into him.

So I would do that same move.

And then instead of pulling him, it looked like I'm turning the ball.

They shoot the hand out, slap, come around the corner.

I'd go a whole half and just bullet, do, bullet, do, bullet, bullet, bullet.

Get him already, get him setting heavy, set on that and then come the second half,

bullying, come around the corner, bullying, come around the corner.

So the adversity back to the mental adversity, because I think that's huge.

You know, I mean, people get cut from something.

You're going to get rejected in business, you know, starting out things that don't always,

people don't grasp everything immediately.

And a lot of people quit, you know, most people quit under the first sniff of adversity.

Well, this is this is one thing the reason I didn't quit is because I never really gave

it all that I had.

You know, when I sat down and, you know, actually, you know, it was two years in, I actually

learned everything.

And you know, I knew all the positions.

I could play inside outside.

I could play, you know, either right or left outside, macro buck on the inside.

I was doing well on special teams.

So like I would literally sit at night, dude, and I had a bed.

I just lay my bed on the floor and I had no TV, nothing, no radio, nothing.

And whenever I got back to my room, all I did was study.

That's all I did was study.

And you know, it, it got obsessed.

Oh, no, I didn't get obsessed.

I said, if I'm not going to make it, it's going to be because I'm not doing everything

necessary.

Like, it's going to be, I gave it every, because if I didn't make it after that, after

my third time when that came back, I was done.

It wasn't meant to be, wasn't in the car.

I was going to go get a regular job, everybody else.

And that was going to be cool.

And I had no issue with that.

Yeah.

But she was going to give it everything before you bowed out.

Oh, yeah.

Most people don't get cut that many times though.

Anyway, you slice it and say, I'm going to keep coming back.

I'm going to keep coming back.

I'm going to keep coming back.

Something mentally had to kick in.

No, it's just something like, well, that was before.

I ended up being coach of the boat, but coach of the boat had to go say, he said, never

get too high with the highs, never get too low with the lows.

He said, you're never as bad as they say you are, but you're never as good as you think

you are.

So that helped me to keep even killed, especially when I started having a little bit of success.

And the drive, that just comes from my parents, man.

I'm the youngest of 14.

So to say, we had to get it out the mud a little bit.

Yeah, we had to get out the mud a little bit.

I know your mom has, from what I understand, impacted you greatly.

I think I saw an interview where they was talking about the mean look and attitude.

And I forget they said, did that come from the spirit of the Steelers great in a line

backers?

And you said, no, that come from my mom.

I said, that's where I learned that from.

Yeah, so what things did you grab from your mom, what impact has he made?

My dad was a big guy about work, and he was an extremely hard worker.

What did he do for work?

My dad was a delivery driver for maintenance for our genitorial suppliers.

It was called a portable emboss.

I actually started working there when I was 12.

to like I would get it for all from school seven grade ride the bus going on clean up the

offices and he'd take me back home because he'd be coming in you know finishing and that

was a that was actually my first time but I actually I think I worked there until I was

telling him to college like so hard work was nothing like you know coming in buffing

and scrubbing floors like I was doing that you know 13 14 years old with you know and that

was just work ethic you know even after hours you got the work ethic from your dad no question no

doubt about it dude my dad said if you go do something you do it the best you can and you don't do

it no less you know otherwise there's no need do it you know so you know my dad he had he had

actually he was going to pull me out of out of football one time because he was like you

don't look like you're giving it y'all like you know I'm trying you know whatever it may be I

probably wasn't you know when you think about it but he goes and you get on that field you ain't

got no friends you treat everybody the same like they your worst enemy you give them everything you

can on that practice field when you get done off that practice field you be their friends again but

when you're on that practice field you're on that game field you ain't got no friends so that's

really how I started to to approach the game you know where where did did he play sports my dad

played my dad played like a little sports in high school but you know my dad was born in 1940 you

know back in the G so different yeah yeah big time so you got the work ethic from your dad and then

what what things would you say you got from your work ethic from my mother too you know it's a

combination my mom and dad you know we're together 40 plus years before my dad passed in 2016 but

you know everything that is me is them you know I'm saying everything that you see here is is

coordinated you know parenting of them and the work ethic that they instilled in me you know

a lot of people they go and they see my mom they're like oh you look just like your mom

your mom but then as soon as they see my dad they're like oh no he spits you out hey he did

how much of the how much of this success that you've had in the game was skill versus will like

what percentage would you say was man I did have some special gifts because you don't get that far

without having some gifts you know just like he was over here telling me it wouldn't a matter to

fight I had another year yeah or not a village ability in high school based off of what I got

based based where you have right now but what matter right no so so for me um what a lot of

people don't know is I had some skill you know um I got into a little bit of trouble when I was in

high school so originally I could have went everywhere I wanted I had offers from you know how I

was stayed to Nebraska Notre Dame all that but I was facing six months gel time in my last you know

part of my senior year so a lot of schools dropped out and I was left with you know Kent and you

know they was like we still want you so that's where I went and then when I got there the coach

that brought me in ended up getting fired so I can't mm hmm who brought you in a Kent uh Coral okay he

brought me in it Kent and then I was inausible because I had to do a prop my grades wasn't good enough

to so I messed my problem and then they ended up firing the coach and bringing in different coach man

you really did have the long route dude the heart row they brought in DMP so it's a decordinator for well

actually he just I think he just retired from Atlanta but he was decordinated for Baltimore or

the Ravens no yeah that's same thing uh New England and New England and he was the head coach

he was decordinator at Michigan State so he was actually one of those that were recruiting me

at that time but when he ended up getting the Kent he didn't even know I was there it was one of my

friends uh dad's was like yo you got somebody here that's probably one of your best players but

you ain't got him on the team and he ended up because I was out of football like I couldn't do nothing

with for two years so I only got I only got to play three years and um he's like well

who is he's like James Henson like whoa shit I kind of yeah I kind of remember the name

so I ended up going in there and meeting with him and um he's like man what a game changer right there

he's like you got to get you got to get imaginary that conversation didn't happen

listen man everything happens for a reason oh doubt yeah and the crazy part is my friend

he was actually supposed to go to pit but they uh uh took away his scholarship and probably gave

to somebody else and he ended up going to Kent that's the only reason he was there wow yeah like

wow it's uh it's a whole chain of events that you know had to go through for me to be where I'm at right

you've been in a lot of locker rooms

And, you know, I've been in some locker rooms.

I've never been in an NFL locker room,

but I've been in a high school in a college locker room.

And I know, as a former captain, myself,

I knew how to bring people together

and how to click with people from all different demographics.

But out of 50, 60, 100 people on a team at any given time,

not everybody's always going to get along

or be your favorite person, you know, out of 80, 90, 100 people.

How do you think you were able to,

y'all were able to, what advice would you give to somebody

that's in a locker room that has, you know,

people in that locker room, we got to bring people together.

We got to have everybody united, but maybe not everybody's 100 percent

getting along all the time, or not everybody's your best friend.

How do you still bring that together?

So in the NFL, it's a little different

because you go through a whole process of, you know,

you got interviews, you're trying to find out what type of personality they are,

even though they're, you know, they're great players,

you got to make sure that this is the type of person

that you want in your locker room.

Fitch your culture.

Right, it's not going to be a cancer to your locker room.

So for me, when I got to Pittsburgh, the OGs was, you know,

Joey Porter and Jason Gill.

And I was a practicist, but you wouldn't be able to tell

because they treated me just like the rest of the fellas.

You know, it's like, hey, we're going here, we're doing this, you know,

we're going to be here doing this, come on out, you know,

and even when I went out, like they looked out, they didn't pay for nothing, you know what I'm saying?

So I think it's the your older players who are there

and know what it takes to keep that bond going and keep building that

and not letting different individuals be individuals, you know,

and you you you you you buy into the team concept, you buy into to the roles that are given.

And to be honest with you nowadays, you have nothing like that.

Like the locker rooms, I mean, you can look at social media and see that right now

that it's not really that big of a of a buy-in where you have whole teams

that are just together.

Like when we went out, it was 25, 35 guys at one place,

offense defense, starters, non starters, you know, it didn't matter.

The relationships.

Oh yeah, the bonds.

You think these like the chiefs, you know, our teams like that, do you think they have some of that?

Oh, definitely. You have to have to.

You have to, right?

To win at that level.

You can't you can't you can't have guys out there to just, you know, totally hate each other

and they're going to just go out and make it work when it's time to, you know, make it work.

No doubt.

I mean, you'll you'll be able to do enough, but I don't think you're going to win championships with that.

Without the bonds in the team together.

What what people stand out to you that have made a difference in your life as far as coaches

go, what, you know, from middle school all the way through your NFL career, anything stick

out about certain things you learned from certain coaches?

Well, the biggest two that stick out for me is Keith Butler, who was my linebacker's coach

and Dick LeRopp.

Where is Pittsburgh?

Best best linebacker coach I ever had.

The understanding and knowledge and how to explain it to you so that you could go out there

get it done and understand the grasp and put it into action.

Dick LeBogue.

Great as mine defensive mind that I have ever seen in the game.

If you ask me his defense the three, four fires on.

It's a thing of beauty as long as you are doing 100% which is supposed to do everybody's

on the same page.

And you have one person mess up and they can strike up the whole band.

So that was why it takes or it took a little longer time to be a starter in his defense

because of the knowledge that learning curve.

You have like a little nuance in every defense that if this one thing happens, it changes

what you're supposed to do.

Draft.

The person goes in motion.

If this one thing happens, it may not ever happen.

But if this one thing happens, they come out in trips and they make quads.

Now you got to get up, go over here and cover number four, man and man were before you got

the blitz free.

You know what I'm saying?

And if you don't know that through the course of learning and understanding that because

that's like the one thing in the back of your head that you're like, you're not even

thinking about that.

I'm blitz and I'm going.

I was tunnel visual.

You know when I was first playing, all I could see was here, trying to see the whole thing

and know that this tiny income is in and motion is over, it's going to change something.

That was hard.

Anybody inside or outside the game other than mom and dad, look back on your life connected

dots and you like, man, this person, these people made it, they impacted me majorly.

And I look back at these moments or these things, anything stick out to you.

I can't really say that man.

And that's like, you know, people are like, you know, who are your idols growing up and

that are dying, man, that are dying.

I ain't have to go anywhere outside my house.

I had James and Milton Harrison right there.

That's all I need.

So mom and dad, this is great parents.

No question.

Similar things.

Similar things.

And give your hug and a kiss too after they get done.

Whoop your ass.

And give your hug and kiss.

Okay, something.

I'm whooping your ass because I love you.

So I feel like I already know the answer then.

But as a dad, you got two boys that you believe in tough love, give them a little spank.

I believe in discipline.

My thing is this, I'm not going to sit there and yell at you and get mad and then hit you

because I'm hitting you out of anger now.

I'm going to tell you something one time.

If I got to tell you again, I'm going to spank that ass.

Other than that, you get parents that are like, oh no, don't do this.

Don't do that.

Don't do that.

Don't do that.

Now they want to hit them.

They want to hit them because they mad.

They're not hitting my love and correction.

The thing I truly believe is discipline.

To discipline kids between the age of two and six, that's when you get the most out

of it.

And I believe that because you can't reason with them.

People want to sit there and try and talk to their two and three and four year old.

You don't understand that if he touched his socket, let's go kill him.

He'll understand what that is.

You can't get him to understand and reason that through it, just like a lot of other things.

But I can tell him, don't touch that.

Now if he goes back there and he touches that, I spank his hand.

Now he knows like, you know what?

I'm going to touch that no more.

I'm going to get pain.

I'm going to get my hand popped.

Right.

Because I can't sit there and reason.

Now as they get older, you're like, hey, like my kid is now 15 to 13.

I don't need to spank no ass now.

I'm like, I'm taking this game.

I'm doing this.

You're on like that hurts them more.

They'd be willing, like that's going to hit me.

Just going to hit me.

Give me them licks.

Right.

So I'm going to hit the game.

Don't take the game.

Go ahead, give me them notes.

That's how I was.

Like I turned 16.

I'm like, I guess I'll take this weapon.

I ain't tripping.

She's like, hey, you know what I'm like?

What's punishment?

What that mean?

You can't go nowhere.

The card I'm going to go nowhere.

Go to school and back.

I'm like, what?

I'm like, can I just take this weapon?

She's like, nope.

So that started hurting me more than, you know, actually,

I want to just go ahead and take the licks real quick,

keep it moving.

Yep.

So as a parent, you know, kids, your kids

are going to NA right now.

One of the better schools from an education standpoint

in the state of PA, great sports background.

Maybe, I don't know, you grew up, you said, I think,

13, 14 siblings.

Maybe it may be a little bit different

than how you came up or what you have access to.

Or, you know, I'm sure at this point, they say now.

My kids are privileged.

A lot of people want to say, your kids are spoiled, James.

No, my kids are spoiled.

My kids are privileged.

They get things because I have things.

Now, sport is when you get something you don't deserve.

That's like me saying, hey, son, you want the new Jordan?

I'ma go ahead, break down, get your new Jordan.

You want some blitz?

I'm gonna get you something, blitz.

I got all that.

But you came home with a 2-5.

The hell, you ain't getting nothing.

No, that don't work like that.

Or you're acting up.

Hey, you're acting crazy.

And I'm still like, yeah, I'ma go ahead, do this,

and do that.

That's called sport, you know?

So they give me what I want.

Now, my kids are very privileged.

Now, you bring me, you know, three, five, three, six,

four point, oh, all that.

You can almost get anything you want.

Like, can you create toughness in a privileged environment?

You can create the toughness that I grew up with

or that you grew up with, you know,

where you came from, nothing you had, nothing.

That's just a little different toughness.

Like, you got to have a little bit of street toughness

and all that, you know, ain't nothing going down

and you know, wex, you know, saying these streets of wex

for you know what I'm saying?

So that's a little something that you can't get.

And to be honest with you, that's not something

I want them to have.

You know, I could be like, oh, let's move back to Agroom.

Where, you know, hell no, I did all that to get up out of there.

You know what I'm saying?

So you didn't have to worry about that.

You have less to worry about, I would say.

So toughness, I mean, my son, you know, they try

and mimic toughness, especially if something's hurt

or you know, they hit, you know, get something hit.

They try not to, you know, whine and cry about it.

Like my son, he didn't have his mouthpiece in.

Just do a bit through his whole tongue.

I know it had to hurt.

It's like, there's nothing up.

He goes back into the game like I'm sitting here.

I'm like, do if I have bit my tongue, I'll be ready to get a bite.

Yeah, but real, real.

Do a bit through his whole tongue, bro.

I'm like, okay.

No doubt, that's toughness, right?

Yeah.

Limebacker.

Playing Limebacker.

Yeah, he playing Limebacker.

Both of them.

Yeah, yeah.

Limebacker running back.

Yeah.

Love it.

Did you play running back?

Man, check my records, man.

That's what I got recruited to.

I recruited to old state forehand Nebraska.

Was I running back?

Yeah.

Okay.

That's where the skill came from on the pick six.

Come on now.

You got to put it to you some old bitch trying to tell you, man.

I'm going ahead and get my tape, man.

Are you fast?

Or was it like, I was like, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was 10, I had a carry,

you know what I was saying?

So, you know, I was decent, you know.

Okay.

What division?

I don't even remember, like maybe three.

Is that, what was the acronym?

What?

I didn't go to, so I was supposed to go to book them.

Okay.

But my coach, Mo Tidd, so I went to a private Catholic school in my freshman year.

Yep.

And I ended up leaving there in the middle of my freshman year and going to, I mean,

going to book them.

The coach from there ended up leaving and going to Coventry.

He came, he got me from book them and brought me to Coventry.

So you went to Coventry?

Yeah.

So that's when they started like opening a road.

Hope is killing it right now, ain't they?

Dude, they know, they, they, they, I think they just lost.

But they was one of the state titles like back, back, back, back.

You know why, right?

Why?

Coaches from the yo.

He from where?

From Youngstown.

Oh, they ain't why, man.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it is.

Look at the coaching tree from Youngstown.

A bunch of stud coaches from Youngstown.

I'm not checking out, dude.

Go ahead.

Best leaders, best leaders, you've been around in the game.

That stick out to you from a leadership standpoint.

High school, college, players, coaches.

When you think leaders, anybody's anybody's.

What like I said, I gotta go to my OGs, you know, I gotta go to, you know, Peezie Joy Porter.

Chase and Guild.

I gotta go to the guys that was in my, you know, in my room.

That would, what sticks out to you that made them great leaders?

They brought everybody together.

No matter what it was, you know, it's this coordinate effort for team.

You know what I'm saying, bonding, building.

What did they do to build those bonds relationship?

Which has been more time outside of football.

Time outside of the game.

Yeah.

Time outside of football, you know, with each other.

Then sometimes, you know, I did with my family, bro.

Like real tough.

Like, you know, you spend, you know, whatever, eight, nine hours.

And then you go, you know, hang out for another three, four hours.

You know, you go home.

I'll tell you, you get home, you just sleep and you're up and back out.

No doubt.

Hours during the season.

What does, what does the season look like, you know, for some, I mean, looks fun and games, you know, to play in the end of that.

It depends on the person and what they do.

What is, what is, what is a, what do you think it takes to be successful at that level from a, in season standpoint?

You gotta put it in the work, dude.

That's all, that's all that's to it.

All, like, what time you start with time you get done.

For me, personally, recovery, to film, to practice.

What's he for me?

I'm up at, you know, I'm up at four, you know, and I'm to the gym by five.

So I like to work out before we start anything.

And then, you know, you start doing your meetings, do your meetings.

So you've been doing that because I know you do that now.

You get up at three now, yeah.

You get up at three now.

Yeah.

Three a.m.

What's you doing at three a.m.?

I'm doing everything I need to do before the sun rises.

So I gotta get up, gotta take myself a minute.

I gotta read, I gotta read my Bible.

Love it.

I gotta do some little work on the computer.

And then I shoot out of there and try and get to the gym by five o'clock, you know what I'm saying?

And if I don't have a lot of other stuff to do, then I'll get there at four forty five or something.

If I got other stuff to do, I may come later.

Love it.

Five thirty.

Why do you like doing it?

I do too.

I have nothing so early because there's nothing that can pop up and get in the way.

You can't, oh, we move the meeting.

Oh, this happened.

The emergency with the kids or something.

They're asleep.

You know, it's ain't no banks.

Ain't nobody running no clock.

They're not starting to eight.

Right.

Okay, nothing.

and change. So between that, you know, that three and that seven is nothing that can interrupt

me. What time do you get to bed? It depends. Sometimes I'm dead tired and I'm like, I'm going

to sleep at 7, 3, 8 o'clock. Sometimes, I'm, you know, 10, 11 back up at, you know, 3,

it just really depends. Average hours of sleep. 4 to 6. Now it's probably more like 5 to 7.

Okay. When I was playing doughs, yeah, easily 4 to 6. You run good on all night. You feel

good? Rested. All that. Well, I take, you know, I take some, I take, I take a nap. And

when I pop up, it's like, I don't care if I sleep 4 hours. Love that stuff. Yeah. I don't

care if I sleep 4 hours. Don't taste good. But that's right. I drive scoop it. I drive

scoop 2 or 3 depends on. Chase it with water at night. Yeah. After work, I was 2. Love

it. I get great sleep on that. Yeah. I'm empty. I want it by the way. Yeah. I got you. Other

than the Super Bowl pick that everybody knows. You know, I think most other favorite you

talk about. If I slam into Brown's fan. You know, I'm a Brown's fan. That's all right.

Everybody got their thoughts. You know, if I knew that they won't go do nothing to me,

I'd put a little more into that one. I'm slamming the Brown's fan out through his

hands. How did that go down? So all the things, not even a play. This is your, this

is your, and I got some of my dogs. Like most of my, most of my dogs are Steelers fans.

Like in Youngstown, it's split. Brown's and Steelers. Yeah. Most of all my friends I grew

up with are Steelers fans. So I've been taking them to Steelers games. We get a row

because most of my friends never went to a game at all professional games. So we started

that almost 10 years ago. We get a whole row and we go, we go watch a Steelers game.

Most of them are Steelers fans and they love getting on me any, any chance they possibly

can. So they go love this answer that your favorite. It wasn't even a play with slamming

a Brown's fan. How did that go down? What happened? Where was it at? It was in Cleveland,

you know, in Cleveland. Yeah. That's just disrespect. And dude, it just ran out on the

field and Ron Haines was sitting at the tail. And he, when dude came running, he kind

of took off a little bit like he was running away from. So I had to go get some of our street

credit back. You know what I'm saying? And he was bouncing back towards us. And I'm

like, I'm about to call him just slamming real quick. I think I'm gonna hold him down

way to the police get there. So I picked him up my slamming and I started to throw his arm

behind his back. But I'm like, no, I might hurt his arm. Like the police? Yeah. I started

giving him all that right. He was like, I said, I'm gonna find it now. I said, I'm

a thwimp guy. I hadn't got fined ever before that. Oh, that was that we're all started.

No, I can't get fined for that. Okay. Not at all. They got him for criminal trespass.

Felon is that Felon being trespassed? I'm like that. Yeah. So I'm like, all right. I'm

gonna hold his arm in front of him. So then he grabs my face mask. He's like, he looks

up. He's like, oh, I got your ass. He had to be hammered. Oh, he was gone. He grabbed

my face mask and I got you. I got your ass now. Okay. So I took this, I took this form

and I had his hand here. And I just started pressing my hand down into it, down to his throat.

And by then the police came and they started grabbing him. Now, when I got down with him,

he didn't have a scratch on him. Dude, they came over there. They had a foot on his head,

on his jaw. Dude, one dude after I got up, he stumps his foot down on him like this and

then he looks at me like you see that? Dude, he was bloody. He was bloody by the time he got

up. Oh, man. Yeah, that was that was probably the that was one of the whatever happened

is he ended up getting. He had to go to jail every time this the Browns played. I think

he had to sit in jail for like was it two or three seasons? He couldn't go back for like

five time. The Browns played. He had to go to jail. That's crazy. Actually, I think they

did an interview because you know, I'm from Ohio, Akron, whatever. And he was like that helped

him to start sobriety. Yeah. So everything happens for a reason. Yeah. What pet peeves you

got? Any pet peeves like man, people wouldn't know, but this is this like sets you off. I think

I like that really. Like my pet peeve is entitlement. Like if people are entitled to something

ungrateful, that's something that kind of gets under my skin. Nothing gets under your

skin like that. Really, man. Best player you played against. I'd have to say was Joe Thomas.

Good tackle. He could withstand a boy rush from from where now? From Cleveland. Yeah. He

could withstand a boy rush in the past game. So that's the best player you played against.

As far as the past. He's just going to the Hall of Fame. I don't know. I think that he eligible.

Yeah. I think he just got it right. If he's eligible, I'm pretty sure he did. Yeah. So yeah, he was,

he was probably one of the best. Why would you say that? Because he could withstand a boy rush

and he could get his arm in and out of there. He was a late, light, light hand shooter.

So he didn't extend it too much. Yeah. I wonder how much of that was studying

film or how much of that was just instinct within my wonder. Work ethic in your opinion.

Because that's something that I do know that I can testify because I'm up early a lot in the

gym. And I've seen you in the gym for years, you know, getting it in that work ethic is rare

to see people up pushing that hard early in the morning. Knowing to come up, you know, I just

would assume there was some form of discipline and work ethic in the league. You know, you see people

that get drafted first round, second round, third round, first day, all the time. And don't end up

in all pro, in your in all pro five times. How much, how much of the game would you

sit, would you say over the longevity of it? Because you also played 15 years, I believe, right?

So to make it a decade plus decade and a half, how much of it is skill set, how much of it would

you say is discipline, work ethic, things that that nature that makes somebody special?

So I would say 50% of it is skills. The other 50% is health. Health.

Stay healthy. Stay healthy. You gotta be able to stay healthy. The older you get, the easier it is

for you to get hurt. So the longer it takes you to recover. So the biggest thing that I did is

I spent a lot of money on building and recovering from workouts, training, games, all that, you know,

I would spend anywhere from, you know, three to five hundred thousand dollars a year on my body

recovery, workout, treatment and all that so that I was able, you know, to play as long as I did.

I remember seeing that. I remember seeing you as one of the first, and I don't know if you were

the first, but to me, I remember you being the first person that jumped out to me as like,

dude, spending four or five hundred bands on his body is what's the thing about this thing about

it. But I get it as a business owner. I'm like, man, this is this cat's business. Right. My body,

that's my business. That's exactly that's an investment. If I tell you right now, I say,

man, you know, give me four hundred thousand in a year. I'm going to give you five, 10 million

back. You go for investment. Exactly. A lot of guys can't see that because, oh, that's just so

much money. But the same guys that can't see that and invest in that in their body will go to Vegas

and drop 20,000. No doubt. You can't even write that off. I could write mine on. Right. Business

investment. No question. No doubt. I think people got to look, I've seen that here in my own business

of people that look at it that way. They rather not spend, you know, the money and reinvest it

back into their business to grow to business, but then they'll blow money on other stuff. And then

you got people that live opposite that they'll invest that money into the business and you understand,

oh, man, I spent a hundred grand, but I got five hundred grand back 12 months later. Is that that's

100% the way that you saw it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. To be honest with you, I didn't see it as that

to begin with as an investment. I saw it as just trying to keep me healthy a way to make me feel

better so I could play better. You know, and it went from one person to another. It started with,

you know, just a regular massage person and then somebody else was like, hey, try this person,

you know, and to be honest, with you through the course of, you know, the first 12 years or so,

I probably tried out 60, 70 different, you know, body workers, you know, chiropractors, whatever,

you know, that may be. And when it came down to it, I had a running team of six people.

What did those six people do? I had a chiropractor. How often? Twice a week. Okay.

I had a physio cryo masseuse. So he basically worked on you, do all, like, for like two hours,

and didn't need to adjust you. So I saw him twice at acupuncturists. Twice a week. Okay.

I saw him back to back. I was seeing him Thursday because he was usually taking two days just to get

through me to get everything, right? Yeah. So I'd seen Thursday and then have to practice on Friday.

Okay. And then I see my other chiro at the hotel on Saturday. And then again, before I go

to the game, how many times did you get an adjusted a week? Three. Okay. So masseuse, chiropractor,

massage and dry, dry needle, well, massage and acupuncture. Okay. I do that once a week. I had

a cupping massage. I do that once a week. I had how's the cupping? You think it's it helps

loosen up the fascia. Yeah. Okay. Oh yeah, especially anywhere where you like, you know,

I haven't done that. Yeah. Good combo with massage. It hurts you. Yeah. But um,

and then dry needle, they're that uh, once a week too. So I think that's it. What other things

did you spend money on? Uh, equipment nutrition wise or anything? Uh, supplements like crazy.

Supplements. Uh, hmm. Equipment equipment. Uh, when I say equipment like hyperbare chamber. Okay.

Um, thinking made a difference. Yeah, it did for sure. No doubt. No question about it. Okay. You still use it

today? Nope. Okay. Why? Because I'd do something better. What?

Ozone therapy. Burnette? Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Well, I was doing it before. How often?

Now, yeah, once or two, three, maybe four weeks depends on how I feel. Okay. When I was playing.

So the ozone therapy is better than the hyperbare chamber. To me, it is. For real? Yeah. I had

a hyperbare chamber for three, four years. And you, and you feel it? I started doing the ozone therapy

and 12. I got rid of my chamber at 13. Love it. What else?

IV vitamin drip, you know, same thing. And that's about it. Stem cell? Oh yeah, I did stem cells.

That would be, you know, either offseason or in season. Um, what things do you do now?

For same. I do the same thing except for, um, like for injury stuff. I've added like a peptides

BBC time will be for, um, just all around health. 5.0.8. Hey, one. Still massage. Yeah. Still car

practice. Yep. Way less. Way less. So, um, you know, I still do massage in acupuncture at least,

once a week. And then cupping, you know, I could go months, you know, without that driving me to

the links. Same thing months. Reps, reps wise. You going low reps? It just depends on what reps.

What I'm doing, you know, I don't go, I'm going to hire them like 10 or 12 reps, you know, no higher than 10 or 12

reps. Yeah. Yeah. No hard and 10 or 12 reps on anything that I do. And it depends on which phase, you

know, we're in, you know, if we're starting off and we're switching. Yeah. Yeah. It goes through a whole,

you know, whole program of usually at least six months of programs before you start, you know,

getting to where you're at three to five reps. And, you know, it's never, I mean, I do one rep max,

but it's never on the sheet, you know, saying it's always no Lord and three. And then I usually do

no hard. Well, I take about 15, no harder than 50. What would, uh, when I see you in the gym,

I put my headphones on. I don't talk to a lot of people at the gym a ton. I don't see you talking

to a ton of people. You got your headphones typically in. Uh, what are you listening to?

It just depends on, you know, what's going on if I'm on the treadmill, like I'm done working on

them, just walking, you know, for 45 minutes, whatever that may be, then I may be listening to like some

old school, R&B, like real old school, like some old school R&B. Yeah. Like how old school. Okay.

How old? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, great. Luther. Um, Bobby Wolmak on it. Yeah. And then if I'm

going heavy, then I'm listening to like some ignorant, uh, rap shit.

It gave me one or two, uh, anything where you're talking about somebody, uh, who, who, or I could go,

I could go with some, some little, little, I could go with some, um, usually some, um,

the fans, man, it's really, it could be, it could be the baby, it could be, so you new school,

it could be, you know, school, rap, or old school. I don't, I don't, I go pop. That's my,

old school. That's my old school. I'm going to pop. I want to just give Island with it. Yeah, I go

I go pop. But you know, I listen to all the current stuff like you know money bag,

golf, all that, code act. So when you hit the weight, it's some hardcore rap. And if you're on

the treadmill, it's the old school R&B typically. Yeah. Because that's a long time to be on that

trip. For real? He go 45 minutes on there? I can't know because of the knee, but normally anywhere

from 45 to an hour. And you know, started six incline, three miles an hour. And then like for

the first, it won't, my knees not hurting for the first 20 minutes every five minutes.

Up to the end, climb by one. So you go six, seven, eight, nine, ten. Then you drop back down,

or you could go up to 12 and then drop back down to six for the rest of the time. And you could,

you know, speed it up. I'm going no faster than four miles an hour. So it's like three to four. And

no running. Too much impact on the body. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I ain't got to do that no more. No doubt.

That's why I keep the incline, you know, at like six or higher. And then you can still get a good

work. I believe me. Try it. Favorite favorite food? Cheap meal pancakes. Yeah. I could do about 25,

30 pancakes. One time. Yeah. One sitting 25, 30 pancakes. Oh man. I thought I could eat.

Yeah. I thought I could eat that. I don't know if I could put down 25, 30 pancakes.

I'm getting a half hunger baking. Where the two in the south is. How often you have in cheat meals a

week? Over the course of the last since I had surgery on my knee hill every other day. Okay. No,

starting March, fifth. I'm going to go back to cleaning it up a little bit. Yeah. I got to tighten

up a lot. Dude, I went from I went from 10, 6 body fat to now I'm at 21, 20 point one. Okay. Yeah,

so yeah, I got to 270, 280. Do I'm probably 290 right? 290. Yeah. What do you feel best at?

If I'm in my plan or just walking around? Walking around. What do you feel best? 75, 270. Okay. If I'm

playing like 260. What would the supplements you gave me? Is that anything other people could get a

whole love? Yeah. Yeah. You know, you got the D-bo here. Yeah. You can go to optimum EFX.optumum. Yeah,

optimum EFX.com is direct to consumer, but it's all, you know, it's no artificial flavors, you know,

sweetener, all that stuff. Everything passes, you know, water, NFL, and CWA testing protocols,

all that. So you don't have to worry about it being any legal, you know, or advanced substances,

and you know, in the products. And they work great. So optimum don't taste too good, but they work great.

And the biggest thing with the taste issue is because of the natural flavor. No doubt. Flavor. No

doubt. If you add, you know, aspartane or something to it, you can make a taste great. But then you

looking at, you know, possibly messing up, you've got health or whatever that may be. So that's huge.

Yeah. That's huge. What was the stuff that you gave me? Neroff. Neroff? Neroff. Okay. That's one of our

biggest repeating sales. So people who actually buy Neroff is a 87, 89% return. They always 87 to 89

percent of the people come back and get it again. Yeah. That definitely worked. Oh yeah. For me.

And it don't have you groggy when you wake up. No. You're ready to go. Yeah. Yeah. It's not horrible

tasting, but I can, I can you want something that tastes great. I don't want to taste great. I don't

want to taste great. If you want something that tastes great, because if you put it to taste great,

a lot of times, I got. Yeah. I don't want to, I'm cool with that. Yeah. Actually, when, when you

were telling me about it, when I had it, I'm thinking, okay, this makes me a believer in what it

is that you're saying that it's clean because it don't taste phenomenal. But I don't eat

typically all the time for it to taste phenomenal. You know, most of the food right now is not to

just taste phenomenal. It's for the benefit. You know what I'm saying? But that, that gives me

the great sleep, man. I feel I feel arrested and in recovery 100%. So I do the same thing. So

when I get when I get down working out, I'll take a scoop just to bring it down because I take the

neuron before I go in. I ain't get you the neuron. Did I? The neuron tastes even worse, but works

better than anything any pre workout activated. You'll find out. Gitters. I need that or anything else.

So that's the you know, the yin and the yin and the yin and the yin. Oh yeah, it's clean. Everything's

there. All our products are clean. All of them certified, you know, tested for sport all that.

Yeah, it's right there on the label. Yeah, that's that that worries me the more that I dig in to the

research and of the health and the body and everything comes from the gut. You know, the gut health

is the supplements that I take and the supplements that people take. Man, I'm all about reading that label

now. I'm saying what's what's in it and I love taking I hate saying I gotta, you know, do anything

because it's up here. But I love taking a pre workout, you know what I mean? And and to have some

form of pre workout that is that is clean and can still get you that right that feel. You know,

I'm saying that that energy. I gotta definitely gotta try that out. Yeah, it's not it's not so ours is

more of a it's more of a neural transmitted neural activator, you know, it's more for brain

function. Yeah, you know, when you're hitting on all cylinders, you can, you know, you feel better,

you do things better on that stuff. You go longer stronger on it. So it's not it's not a caffeine,

you know, loaded thing might have as much caffeine in it as a cup of coffee. We actually have one

stem free that has no stimulant center point blank period. You know, that's actually one that I

get to my son. So it helps him, you know, especially with, you know, memory things as far as, you

know, getting ready to take tests, school stuff, workout, yeah, no doubt. Any other things you got

going on, you know, for people that are interested in following you or any businesses you got going

on other than I see you was wrestling out there. That was movies or something like that was hills,

that was on the stars. They did season one. That was season one that I was in. They just finished

season two a little while ago. Don't know when seasons two coming out, but I wasn't in season two.

Hopefully they get season three and then I can come back. So season one stars. What was it?

Hills Hills, H-E-E-L-S like wrestling hills, okay, faces, okay. Yeah. And he was on their body slamming

cast. Yeah, yeah, I was playing a character card. Do you pick it up good? You pick it up easy?

Yeah, it's not, we didn't do well that wrestling as you saw, it wasn't a whole lot of you know what I'm

saying. So the character I play is a dude called Apocalypse. He's a recovering, you know,

added, he's kind of loyal to the DWL and this family that's trying to build this small time

wrestling thing to like a big WWE type thing. Love it. Yeah. We, you know, I know when I reached out to

ask you if you would come on the podcast, it took some guts, you know, because I'm like, man,

I can see you with the meme, you know, shutting a lot of people down and then I'm like, I know

to do didn't go to the White House, you know, when they want a Super Bowl, you know, most of the time,

I think the vibe when you win a Super Bowl, the thing that they do Disney is a Disney in the White House.

No, you just, well, all Disney is the White House, the MVP usually does Disney.

The MVP does Disney, but all the players do the White House. Yeah. And you didn't go to the White House,

said I don't want to go to the White House. So I'm like, man, do didn't come to the White House,

I got a real slim chance of getting them to come into the Grandcast studio. Yeah, I didn't need

to go to the White House, man. I ain't going to the time, like, you know, it was a big to-do when I

didn't go when Obama was there, but it wasn't a big to-do when, you know, Bush was there, so I'm

trying to figure out what was the issue. Right. I'm with you. Yeah. Well, we appreciate you, man.

I appreciate you coming out. Thanks for having me. Spending time with us on the Grandcast and

pouring in, pouring into the people, man. So we appreciate everything you do and glad to have

you in the community and loved the way that you played the game, man. Even though I wasn't a

Steelers fan, I was a James Harrison fan the way that you played the game, but I appreciate it.

So and seeing how you still move and grind and operating the morning is inspiring. You know,

also, I love to see it. So, but thank you, man. We appreciate your time. And thanks to everybody for

listening to another episode of Grandcast. Get ready as a new day.